Making of a TEEN MURDERER!



so they gave me a choice he said that now there's no one's going to do that job because everyone think I've added up and they want to kill me took any choice either I do the job or they would dump me so I was a tough decision and my justification was that from if I don't do it someone else really it's not that I can save that guy's life welcome to pulling the trigger the podcast showcasing interesting unusual and controversial people and ideas when no subject or topic is off-limits completely uncensored I am your host Ark use hello today is October 3rd and you will be listening to this at the earliest midnight October 4th Pacific Standard Time welcome patrons got a new one this weekend I love it if you don't know what a patron is people who are listening it's someone who subscribes to me on patreon which is a website that helps fans or consumers of people who create or artists donate money to set artists or creators to help them fund their projects if you'd like to do so go to patreon.com on there that are only for patrons and I also do early releases there's one on there right now that's extra spicy and extra death threatening you could do it for as little as $3 – I'll take a million as always so it is 24 days until I leave Vancouver to go to the big city of Toronto and it is I guess as of today it's 10 days until the comedy shocker 18 when Aaron Berg and Isis faggot come and rip our assholes a new one and then prolapse them and stick them back in and rip them out again and then gently put ointment on them and kiss them better this will be a comedy shocker this will be the best one I've ever put on I can hands-down say that I have put in a lot of work spending a bit of extra money I'm bringing in a very talented and capable and suitable for the comedy shock or headliner Arenberg as well as isis faggot and you will not be disappointed I'm telling you you do not want to miss this show there is nothing else like it in Canada this is a once in a well hopefully not lifetime but first time Isis faggot has never done a whole set before you do not want to miss this if you're in Vancouver October 13th rickshaw theater tickets at wwq MIDI shocker calm so today's episode I am releasing early normally I would have waited a couple weeks but this one was a very emotionally impacting one I know this gentleman from the past I've known him since I was 15 years old I first met him in youth detention he was in jail for a murder and I was in jail for a B&E and we met each other well you'll hear the story as you go on this was quite a strange trip down memory lane and I'm not gonna say it was comfortable the whole time the interview is a bit how do I put it a bit awkward we're chemistry is a bit off but just bear with it be a bit patient it's a bit halting here and there we're just trying to figure each other out a cat was interrupting us which was very cute yeah it's tough talking to people I know from the past and especially when it's that far past and we haven't seen each other in a while and the only thing that Bond's us together is prison so sometimes that dynamic is a bit I don't know nerve-racking for me if I'm being honest it might have even been for him Michael is an assumed name he didn't want he's got a life now he doesn't want people knowing everything about him and well why don't you just hear the story let's meet Michael here we are with your your little petting zoo yeah I wonder if my ferrets would get along with your rabbits probably not well never know no they might well ferrets are predators yeah so they might see the rabbit as prey I don't know well I saw like I've only read online right now like rabbits can get along with ferrets oh yeah you just need to find a way to bond them right ferrets can get along with cats and dogs too yes but sometimes not I inquired once was I was thinking about getting a cat for my place because I have mice and the ferrets are useless with mice I asked my fair I have a ferret group on Facebook okay I said hey anyone ever had experience with introducing cats and ferrets can it be done and they said yes and no yes pens on the cat depends on the ferrets because if you get the ferret when it's a baby and trying to introduce it to an adult cat the adult cat will see it as prey oh because it's about the size of a rat right if you get a baby cat with adult ferrets a cat is about the size of what a ferret woody so but it can be done apparently yeah well I guess they have to be on the same age I don't know they said it all depends and you have to be willing to call it a failure they might not get along well same thing that Fairs might not get along with human being yeah exactly I have one who bites oh yeah she was mistreated in her previous place oh yeah so she she's not aggressive what it is is she's not socialized properly no yeah who would have thought we'd be sitting here talking about ferrets and rabbits well 11 year I've been I've been out for 11 years and you said you've been out for what what does it know well since 2013 2013 so you've been oh five years yeah 2018 yeah I lost track and so for my listeners I put an intro into this so they'll have prepared them but like me and Michael not his real name used to hang out in jail it was a young offender institution well we didn't hang out there but we knew each other from there and then we ran into each other years later in the penitentiary you were in on the same beef yeah a charge for normal people that's what beef means and I was in on I don't know the 70th one since then yeah so what I mean how long did you actually do on that sentence do you ever add it up eighteen eighteen years and you're how old when you got arrested two months before eternity oh you're almost an adult Yeah right and that was yeah I you were I ran into you we were in the sheriff's van ride back from the courthouse the first time I was ever in jail right yeah and I guess that was your first time is first and only time you you mean first time in jail in jail yeah yeah that was my first time Wow yeah yeah and what did you get sentenced to 15 years life 15 yeah yeah yeah so it's uh and that was for murder yeah yeah what was them well actually it was ten years ten years because yeah one is five one is 10 yeah right when you're a young offender tried as an adult depth of parole eligibility is different right yeah no yeah I was like ten right took me eight extra years well yeah we'll get into that later yeah what um you know what's funny I was trying to remember if I knew much about your life before jail and I couldn't really remember cuz I didn't really share a little bit no we talked a little bit about it you told me about your family a little bit yeah yeah what with as much as you're comfortable about talking about how did you end up in jail like what what what led up not the specific offense necessarily yes what was your life life like before well I didn't remember telling you all this because I was so young right didn't really have a life ready for jail right I didn't really have much to share with you so basically what happened was I I was a young kid and throw high school didn't really have friends got picked on at school got beat up I didn't know what to do and wasn't very close to my family either so I had no one to talk to you and somehow some friend of mine introduced me to a gang to help me with the bullying and ever since I joined a gang didn't get beat up anymore I had four sense of self esteem like you know like seems like life changing for me at that point so I thought that that's the way of life is to demand respect and whatever right so and then my life didn't get along with my family even like it's getting worse and I move out ran away from home and not almost like living on the street like except like not actually live on the street no fixed address is what they call yeah you're not you're homeless but you're not sleeping in a park yeah so one time that my boss like the gang balls send us to go steal a car and it was like a few of us went to steal a car I was like uh she said look out and then also there's a security guard came out so everyone ran I ran too and everyone got away except for me I got caught the cops came picked me up later and then drove me off to like a few blocks away to a back alley and then he stopped there and asked me what I was doing there and I just lied and said well I was walking the neighborhood I saw people a few guys stealing a vehicle and I was just curious and then the security guard came out everyone started running so I started run to you and and then I caught me so the cop is like okay I believe you so we'll let you go if we see you ever again in this neighborhood I would break your arm so we let me let me go I thought that was my lucky day so I went back so a few days later I got kidnapped kidnapped yeah Oh kidnapped kidnapped ooh to a hotel room my boss put a gun on the bed telling me to shoot myself because now they suspect me as a rat they thought that I how can I got release from getting caught soon vehicle and they thought that I gave up informations it turns out that the reason for them to steal a car is a kind of a rifle murder so they gave me a choice they said that now there's no one's going to do that job because everyone think that I ratted out and they want to kill me so they gave me a choice either I do the job or they would dump me so I was a tough decision and my justification was that um if I don't do it someone else would it's not that I can save that guy's life right so I was selfish to save my own life so I did it yeah well she's a funny thing is is like we're talking about before we started recording these kinds of stories fucking normal to me right here like and it's not to diminish from what happened but it's like I can just imagine some people are probably because I have normal people who listen to this and they're probably no homo right and it's like so I think like you did it commit the murder well how did you feel after I wasn't done I I was numb for a few weeks I had no feelings just I was just stare stare sugar wall and just no thoughts like thinking of all in my life am I still alive there's someone else not right like this so shit of like you're almost not connected here yeah yeah it's like I have no thoughts like just so numb just felt like a robot for for a period of time yeah and so how long after that did you get arrested I posed a year or nine months later okay yeah say then you get yeah how about nine months later my some of my listeners will probably want to know some of these gory details but to protect your anonymity I'm not going to ask about all like all that stuff so you get arrested mm-hm how long until you were convicted three years Wow I waited for trial for three years holy fuck why so long it's just a long process right just takes a while away yeah and you were tried as an adult Yeah right was there a process to decide if you were going to be tried as an adult or not yeah that's why it took oh right yeah yeah yes I can't remember the details normally is like well year year – well it's like a trial before the trial right yeah so there were some complications that we had to kind of like fight through so so we'll be like is either we postpone the trial and the prosecutor postponed neutronics is like we take turns postponing lawyers make money when you do that – yeah so so yeah ended up over three years Wow and then so when you get to jail because that was your first time in jail yeah right what was that like for you well scary yeah Willingdon yeah I remember the first day I went there and it would have been around 95 was it yeah yeah okay because my first time there was 96 early 96 and you'd been there for a little bit already yes so yeah so you get there actually I was there 96 okay so you got there like just before me then yeah well cuz I I I turned myself in the Hong Kong right cuz I went through Holland and they turn myself in and the police Vancouver police went all the way to Hong Kong to get you to get me now so I agreed to come back to Vancouver with them instead of them put me on next flight to back to Canada they stuck me in Hong Kong jail for like six months oh wow that was painful right yeah so even though the jail in Hong Kong was like wait after and Candide in jail when I first got to Wellington I was scared it was totally different dynamic like because I remember when knife they call that mission right yeah when I first got there to put in the pen they call it admission and discharge but in why do you see the colored admissions yeah so I was in in the room like the admission room waiting I hear people banging Fame like I was I was scared like what the fuck and I saw some kid like just stare me down like what the fuck wow I was like I couldn't breathe like I was just scared and then when it took me to the unit I was like like trying pretend I'm not shaking and did they take 80 unit for right away unit I came to Munich to unifor unit forwards for the guys getting raised to adult yeah for the serious crime they put me a unit to first right neither unit to we're gonna fly camera memo I think they put me in for and Wolf too they just moved me all over the place right along yeah yeah I think it was for doesn't matter now yeah yeah anyway it just it was a unit that was for him to her in for serious crimes or who were going to be transferred to adult yeah and so there you stayed for three years well in YDC anyway and took me a few days to it just you know actually after the adjustment I like fell right at home that's one that's one area where you and I differ I didn't like whitey see I fucking couldn't stand it I cuz I had to fight a lot yes sir I got picked on a lot and even when I started standing up for myself it was because I was kind of smaller people wanted to take a swing poke at me all the times it's like I always had to fight it was fucking pain in the ass once I got to adult never got in a fight ever again in my life yeah ever again yeah and what what did what did you find like what did you like about why do you see well it's not that I like it there I mean well my situation is little different because what I was in for right and because I guess the kids weren't they know what you in for they wouldn't fuck with you yeah like if you don't fuck with me right right I didn't know that people being friendly to me so I thought I suck a big friend and that's why kind of like I was doing okay there yeah cuz I'm making friends with me and people will give me canteen would take mine yeah it's funny I just think it's time I'm guilty of that the juxtaposition well I remember first time I was ever in jail we're in the sheriff's van on the way back from the courthouse and a mime work bunch of guys were fucking beating me up and I'm not trying to confront you I don't give a shit who cares kid shit right but it's like like it because the way it works in there is the way it works in there is one of the ways to not get picked on is to seat and make other kids or let other kids see you getting are see you picking on someone else right and then they leave you alone kind of thing right and yeah so I remember we talked about this when we were in jail later on as adults and I was like we hashed it out yeah I think you you did something to me in the sheriff and I can't remember exactly what it was but it was it was it wasn't fun no yeah no it wasn't fun at all but that's okay that's kid shit yeah and I get it you know like at the time when I was younger I used to think I used to be like I was seething with resentment towards everyone who'd ever fucked with me and why do you see like yeah but then when I got older like cat that's cute for the listeners the cat is being very friendly and obnoxious right now but it's in a cute way the when I got older I realized like we're all just kids and fucking no one knows what we're doing yeah and you know you got to do what you got to do to survive in there yes right yeah okay okay in jaco I can edit some of this so later okay that's funny nobody does just hang out on like on you yeah he likes to cut him oh that's cool that's nice cat you have do that there you go he acts like a dog yeah it seems like that and he would stayed like by the door yeah and waits for me to come home oh really yeah is he blind in one eye or almost oh yeah has some we still couldn't figure out what really he was healthy though yes yeah yeah it's almost like a miracle days he's still living okay how old is he he is like almost 1 year okay so you know so he's pretty young yeah because the the the vets suspect he has some incurable disease right supposed to like one last for Sixpence right but he looks great yeah than the I yeah yeah you're a survivor too but yeah why do you see fuckin there we are yeah you're you're surviving and and for three years yes did you ever get in any fights there yes I did oh did you I did one time I said it was one time yeah fuck I hadn't so many men holy fuck yeah I didn't win any of them either but like yeah it was it was uh it was a YDC with a fucking rough go for me I mean eventually it got to the point where like not always in Willington but in other youth jails that I was in like what I would do is I just fucking hit someone immediately boom and I got the reputation for being a psycho and then they'd leave me alone right yeah like a guide mouth me off and like bitterly like just slightly and I'd go and punch him in the mouth like right and and like they say in the movies just go hit him right away and but it worked it got they thought I was crazy yeah and I guess in a way I was but I wasn't crazy like they I just was like okay it was like problem-solving I'm just gonna solve this right now right so and what was the transition from YDC to adult like for you same pretty much the same thing okay always worries was scary how old were you when you actually 21 okay to your and why do you see for yeah while yeah yeah and then what jail did you go to first think of retreat row okay yeah and that was after you were sentenced and everything or actually no I was in ytz only for two years I think right and then they yeah yeah yeah was one one year one or two years right because once you're an adult and you're being tried as an adult that just yeah and yeah and then Vancouver pretrial was a Gerber child I remember was pretty uneventful well I just can't believe how these memories fade away yeah like I mean when when I was in jail would think I would never forget this Yeah right like I always I mean back then I will remember how many years has been where yeah it's like it's like my life right now that when you when we talk like I just can't remember what you what how many years that does it feel to you like it happened to a different person almost cuz it's a different life now yeah that's what it feels like I mean I have the memories in my head but I have no attachment to them anymore it's like I can say this happened they were there I was here but I don't have any feeling towards it one way or the other it's and I don't think about it very often like this is the most I've ever talked about this is long to say long time right and because I've got I'm busy you probably you are too right you're busy with a life that doesn't involve a lot of that shit right correct and I'm not like I don't you know I was telling a friend of mine that I'm going to interview a guy I knew from jail and that's like and I told him like you're this guy I don't really talk to people I know from jail it isn't I don't really run into them very often and when I do I'll be honest I kind of avoid them usually just cuz it's I don't know what they're up to yeah I don't want to get sucked into anything remember I went to your show yeah time yeah totally no that wasn't cuz of you know that's cuz I'm busy at the show and I was like oh I haven't seen you in like over a decade and I'm super busy with my show right now now it was really not the time to catch up right yeah I would have if I wasn't as busy I probably would've told me afterwards I thought it would like keep in touch yeah yeah yeah and if I'm being honest it was also because it's like uh I don't know what you're up to yeah right and it's like I kinda knew yeah I'm like I'm just I don't need anyone disrupting my fucking shit right now yes right so it's it it yes to be honest it's a safety protein is Emre I've had guys I know from jail couple times try and sidle up to me since I've been out and they're obtuse shit and I'm like no I'm not doing this man yeah well I know you well enough you know I I know both you you're my best buddy in and that's join right now so I I knew like since that they I went to your show the way you respond I knew that okay like I totally get where you're coming from like I totally respect that right like yeah and I do have intention to catch up with you mmm-hmm like I just want to have a stable life right so that you can see that I am on the same level until I reach out to you right mm-hmm well yeah seems like you're pretty stable now yeah yeah it's you've been out for five years and just a good place it's what is it two bedroom yes fuck better than me twice as long as you you got a job yes how was it fuck prison okay so yeah okay blah blah blah we were both in prison for a really long time and it wasn't that cool and whatever you get used to it and who gives a shit so anyway you get out right yeah and took you a long time to get out yes let's just focus on that if you don't mind for what took you so it took so long for you to get out pulling the trigger is sponsored by easy vape Northshore the industry's leading directory tailor of the highest quality personal vaporizers ecigs vapes and canadian-made e-juice located at nine eight seven Marine Drive in North Vancouver we'll check them out online at WWE Diva comm you can donate to pulling the trigger by using patreon patreon is a membership platform that makes it easy for artists and creators to connect with their fans and get paid that's @ww patreon.com slash mark hughes comic don't forget to like our Facebook page at facebook.com backslash PTT 6o for upcoming shows safe injection comedy fundraiser Toronto Edition overdose deaths are an epidemic in our country right now and Toronto is no exception Toronto overdose prevention society works tirelessly to have a space where people can consume drugs safely but they rely heavily on donations on March 28th at 1:20 diner 120 Church Street Toronto Ontario some of Toronto's best comics are coming together to raise money for the Toronto overdose prevention society that's $15 at the door and you can find it on Facebook I will be performing my one-man show at the Victoria Fringe Festival Victoria BC August 21st to September 1st date and venue location to be announced now back to our show well you know parole you know it's like you don't always get them yeah you can apply for it just like a job interview right yeah took me a few tries right you know each try is like two years apart right but you are mostly like a model inmate when you're inside weren't you yeah yeah mostly is not that you do well what guarantee you a parole right right no it's like you have to do well and extra work right right and especially being a lifer meaning doing a life sentence so just for my listeners let's clear something up because they they're often surprised with us you're doing a life sentence yes that means you're on parole for the rest of your life yes yeah so you could if you don't follow conditions be suspended and go back to jail yes yeah because normal people think oh he I thought he was doing life what's he doing out and I have to explain to them all the time no he's on parole yeah I have a few lifer I don't know if they're friends or not but people I know like not rich that cats awesome I know a few guys who wrote on like one of my guests Glen flat he's doing life right another guy know who I don't talk too much anymore he lives in Abbotsford use one of the only other guys I've ever kind of kept in touch with that I knew from jail he's on parole for the rest of his life yes he's done he did 40 years on his life sentence inside but he put four zero on that life sense but he fucks his parole up all the time because he uses drugs ya know so you got out once and got sent back to a yeah yeah okay okay moving on how long were you back in after all I was back in for three years three years and but then you got out and you've been know ever since yeah and things are obviously smoother and yeah better now right yeah that's cool yeah and now you're on what they call full parole which means you're basically you're on your own and yeah live in your own place no halfway house no curfew yeah three rabbits cat yes how do you find having animals around feel like I'm a larger animal we all are the same I'm just larger yeah do you find this almost sounds cheesy but do you find it therapeutic to have them around yes if I spend time with him no I find I can't abandon them for some time okay if like you're not home yeah yeah wise right now I only spend time with my cat mm-hmm I haven't spent much time with my rabbits mmm so I kind of been in them mm-hmm yeah but they're just in the other room but yeah but you just don't spend time with them yeah but they're free roam they could just hang out in the room and hop around I guess right yeah so when you got out this last time like what did you find hard oh well I I was pretty bitter about being sent back so it was hard for me to let that go I guess when I first what the second time I got out I thought I let it go maybe I was lying to myself right like kind of like no I'm I'm back out so move on I mean deep down there's like some kind of appointment right so that's that has an effect on me right because I was very motivated the first time I got no right I got myself a job in three days oh wow yeah so I was highly motivated at first time and then the second time I was not as motivated as as I wanted to be right yeah so it it got hard it was hard to like get motivated to like stay out and yeah I kind of not keep up on myself like a slacking right it's like it's like they've diffict I'm thinking range like like yeah I want to send me back for no reason I'm just gonna sit around doing nothing right right like yeah you want me to waste my time in jail I'm gonna waste my time out here another thing right right yeah so I'm not gonna get myself in trouble at the same time I'm just going to relax yeah right you know you know you're not being up you're not you're not breaking law or anything but you're not necessarily being productive yeah yeah so that's kind of kind of self-destructive anyway yeah yeah because it doesn't do at the end of the day they don't really give a shit yeah I'm the one suffering you know not getting anywhere that I want in fact parole prefers if you do that yeah I'm always is when they eat when guys just sit around at the halfway house and don't like really motivate themselves to do anything it seems like parole actually likes that just a risk basically yeah they have they just want to manage your risk they don't care they know where you are all the time you're not doing anything yeah their ass is covered right now I found let me see if this is something you were hoping found I found with parole okay any time I wanted to do anything that was like development like for my own good yeah that was like would help me be a more quote-unquote productive member of society they'd fucking resist and make a big fucking deal about it see how community like I'd be going I'll give you an example I'd go to this thing one time for recovery I was in Kamloops okay so you know when you leave your area of residence you got to get a travel permit right yeah okay shouldn't be a big deal he all goes well who you gonna be staying with I don't know a bunch of people in a hotel room right like I need to do a community assessment on all of them I said are you fucking serious like I don't even know exactly who's gonna be there and I said what do you need to do a community assessment for it she goes well they need to know exactly what you were convicted of no all these guys were cool cuz there I was in recovery with them said I already knew not but like what if they didn't know yeah like why would you interfere and it's a task covering it and someone explain to me off the record once it works for Corrections that the reason they do that is so someone can't sue Corrections yeah if you do something yeah and they need to know exactly what you were convicted of too it's not just like I was in for robbery it's like fuck I get mad just thinking about it used to fight with them and what I would do easy for me because I was I wasn't a life for my parole is coming to an end I would just stop til I I wouldn't lie but I'd be like anyone who was spending significant amount of time I just limit the amount of time cuz that way anyone you're spending significant time with nope yeah that's pretty much of what happened with me you know III stopped making friends right for the same reason yeah keep asking oh do you hang out with we want to do a committee assessment after so many times like okay I'm not seeing anyone don't know right like yeah I don't invite anybody here I don't know I don't see anyone just go to work and come home oh really yeah that's your life and what do you study treating cool yeah la catrina so in some ways it sounds like you're out things are going well is it lonely mm-hmm well I'm way past that be me ten years in jail right yeah you just kind of get used to it right yeah let's do talk to people me I have to do at work yeah I I just don't really hang out I know I one of the things that was a bit tough for me getting out I'm a bit better at it now but I'm I don't really like hanging out with people too much like I don't like social I don't like group things I do comedy as you know and yeah a lot of that has to do with the big component of it is like networking and like the social part and don't do any of that because I also don't drink or do drugs right so and I don't like a lot of them mm-hmm right like they're they're not people I fucking when you've lived like we have it's fucking hard to relate to regular people men it really is as much as I try it's like it can be very difficult like the things they small talk about I don't I don't know you know and I've been out a long time and I still have these problems right yeah and I just I walk into a room and a bunch of people be sitting at a table I don't want to sit at a group like you just don't sit with a group of people he go sit by yourself and people no one thinks like oh what an asshole but it doesn't exactly help either to do that right and so and then I have to push myself to be like be more outgoing mark and then you see then you seem like the guy who's trying too hard to be outgoing and it's fucking weird do you have any of that shit I need any stuff like that ever yeah I mean it's like a cultural shock I mean being jealous I whole different culture right basically we grew up in different culture and you know it's like the people has different sense of humor yeah they're fucking soft ass bitches out here with the defendant so easily men only fuck especially in Vancouver it's like yeah I see people would freak out for nothing I'm like I'm thinking like that's yes he's telling us we're crazy it's like this lady just freaked out for like yeah I want to drive like the pistachios would yell at me for like something like what the hell like I'm stopped for you and you still say saying I was flying or something right I like yeah if I'm dead anyhow yes different culture not culture I mean different yeah it cultures what it is yeah different sense of humor and sometimes I feel awkward and I I yeah I'm judgment on people too right he's like did I hear it just right this sounds so silly what were you talking about normal things to me is like so stupid yeah but if you want it the biggest trick that the hard part for me is like I know that I kind of gotta adapt a little bit if I wanted like yeah like you need to like we don't have to but depending on what your goals are yeah I had to learn to get along with people better right that's a god fucking I'm still not good at it but what a funny thing is when that's all what's normal to me people would think I was different right people think the things I find interesting or either not interesting to a lot of other people yeah or scary or crazy to other people yeah or like when people talk about like oh when I was in college in high school and like look and like you're in a circle and everyone tells the story but when they earn college in high school and like fuck I hope something happens before it gets to me man because like Mike there's an earthquake or someone pulls a fire alarm or something like that because this is I don't have a fucking stick I've this other thing I don't like lying as weird as it might sound I don't like being like oh yeah in high school in Abbotsford I went to high school in the Fraser Valley right yeah it's a dumb thing that would it would probably serve me better if I just was okay lying but I don't like doing it if you see you cuz you've been out for a while now what what do you find what are your like proudest moments being out now any any like accomplishments that you're like wow I'm really glad I did that or victorious moments or anything like that what was same things from which everything like did I stay out guys right I'm proud that I I'm doing okay I mean have a have a job a steady job I keep switching jobs like his job I have like six months like I kind of forced myself to have a job for six months and I switch careers right yeah basically I'm proud that I am doing okay I mean in comparison to the people inside right at least we're out right yeah because at least we have you have a few more limitations than I do but at least like when you're out you have more options yes so even if you can't do things at least you know you could right we're gonna you're fucking locked up you can't do anything right yeah and what else you have any hobbies besides rabbits and cat hobbies okay a remote-control car yeah oh that's cool were you into that shit when we were in jail I think I remember you talking about yeah yes I told you there's something I used to do when I was kid right but that's like a high-end one that's not like a kid one yeah right yeah yeah looking up to 80 kilometers really yeah only fuck where do you take it out to do that I go to race okay yeah poor Port Moody oh cool yeah poor moody there's a race track nice yeah how about drones did you get into that no no I even stopped playing guitar yeah you used to play guitar that's right you were really into it too you tried to teach me how to it's one of the few people always ask me okay for any of my friends listening you ever playing a musical instrument and I say yeah I tried to learn once this is the guy who tried to teach me I had no patience for it I was it was one of those things I'm really bad for this I saw I was gonna be hard I'm gonna stopped but you you're you played it quite a bit yeah yeah I stopped playing guitar ever since I got oh yeah I stopped watching TV when I got out yeah me too no I didn't even have one I didn't have one for a long time yeah I have one now that I just hook up to my computer when I want to watch a movie but I got a TV only for my my fiancee mm-hmm never wants to hmm yeah yeah I used to cause probably like did you watch a lot of TV inside some guys who didn't know me yeah that's pretty much my life as soon as I got out my 13-inch TV I got out with it don't even know what I did with it I think I got rid of it yeah like I remember going to the I did PHP private home placement when I go yeah and I remember I brought it to the one place for sure yeah and I brought it to another place gonna now I can't remember what I did was I might have given it up to someone yeah yeah speaking of TV every now and then i walked through pawnshops and I see like a 13-inch it just flashback yeah it's like oh these other places that like like our family and friends Baez yeah nowheres get in jail yeah we were like get off family like Oh send your TV they still make 13-inch TVs they must say no they don't you know yeah I think maybe 22 right 13 is where yeah yeah they don't make tube TVs anymore either no yeah it's all flat screen yeah things LCD things right where they when you got out were they allowed Internet inside yet no no wow yeah they just when I got we would just allow the LED in the LCD TV right right because before was only two TVs right and they just allowed to have LCD and LEDs and then about a year later I got oh yeah right Wow quit the journey in all of it it's and it smoking – yeah I got out just before they did that I quit smoking before but I haven't smoked in a long time but that a vape yeah yeah don't do that either but my comedy is show sponsored by easy-bake North Shore the directory Oh Taylor of Canadian made a juice yeah I did yeah this this podcast is sponsored by a nice you know easy babe North Shore okay easy easy babe North Shore maybe he'll give me more money for saying it that many times yeah it's a fucking weird man because this is quite a trip to be sitting and like you're refreshing my memory about stuff it was I remember when we were in that one when we were in qui or elbow Lake Road fuck it's called something else no it's it's yeah I haven't haven't talked as much about back then especially though you do think look we yeah I'm just thinking about going to Queen it's just thinking about back there I don't really have anything to say about it cuz it's I don't think about it and I'm not connected to it so it's hard that you didn't like queer that no I didn't I never liked it yeah you you were there's it's to do whatever you need to do to get out that's right well I'd fucked up myself because I'd robbed a bank and get sent back to prison that's how institutionalized I was right and I didn't like all this stupid shit at Klee I thought it was kind of dumb and yeah and and but hey man I got out what it was is I got along with one of the case managers there and she helped me get out so said it had served its purpose yeah I was I do a show about my life now at in fringe festivals and stuff it's a one-man shows they call it's just I tell my story right and that was a dark period for me because I when I got out before I robbed the bank I was trying to be like a legitimate citizen and I fucking robbed the bank to get sent back and I just when I got back I was like I'm a fucking fail I'm never gonna because I didn't want to be in prison but I didn't want to be out either right and yeah so I was fucking miserable I couldn't stand being in jail anymore but I didn't want out really either right yes you know I wanted well I mean I went through the motions like I wanted out but in my heart I was scared to get out again yeah I was scared of that happening my first five years out this last time were very difficult cuz I just it was hard on the head and just adjusting was very difficult mm-hmm I didn't it felt like I was never gonna get it yeah well it is hard for for us to admit that yeah I mean both of us has been in jail more or less the same way however we just in denial and you you you have awareness and you you're honest about it yeah so that's this major yeah yeah it was and I have my support to thank for that because they made it they made it they made it acceptable and safe to be able to talk about and be vulnerable and stuff that so as weird as it was to be vulnerable and as stupid as it felt it was like and that's what I get is it having community and people who are safe well for the community that having a hard time to relay to yeah Mark's talk though yeah think about when do you have a relationship that you want a relationship at the same time is so much struggle that you don't want a relationship anymore yeah it's like you want it and but you don't yeah same thing with a job that you've you need a job you don't like a job yeah so you're having a job and and you like struggling in the job so you don't want it that's the same thing yeah yeah yeah that's it yeah it's it man do you have would you say a much community out here no no are you doing okay shit doesn't matter yeah just just to avoid the bullshit you know what a lot of guys who like cuz I go to the 12-step meetings I see guys who get out of jail yeah like that right you're not living much different than a lot of them though like they're just kind of like loners yeah people turn into loners I noticed a lot what I told a Pio one time because I said one of them said well why do you care about people getting community assessments okay for people listening to community assessments when someone from the parole office goes and meets with you and asks you a bunch of questions about the offender and also does a criminal record check and I remember I'd tell people about this like regular people who get a community assessment it's a criminal record check why do I have to get a criminal record check and I'd be like and then because they don't know anything about the system like if I get a criminal record check do I get a criminal record but this is normal people problems right yes and I didn't want to be a burden on people because if what it sounded like to me was like community was that if I wanted to be friends with people come on buddy I had to be interfere with their life yeah and I said this to appeal one time and I said like this sounds like now my shit is gonna fuck with their and they said yeah if they don't have anything to hide would they got nothing to wear I said no no no no that's not I'm an inmate I'm a convict find me and I get it but not the written time not them yeah exactly I said that's not right and they went well okay and I want all right I find them there's invisible privacy yeah just to hang out with me it's like and I tell them like so first things first I've got a I've got a broach the uncomfortable subject that I'm out on parole for and I did a bunch of time for violent offenses got a cross that bridge first yeah and then oh by the way if you want to continue hanging out with me a peace officer has to come and investigate you yeah I'm gonna ask you this question it's an uncomfortable question but it's probably for the listeners sake okay let's see how comfortable I can get all right how do you feel about your crime the murder these days I feel that I there is nothing I can do to change the past yeah and I'm doing everything I can to make the difference yeah yeah and you are on parole for the rest of your life too so it's yeah it's not like you're off scot-free or anything yeah well even if I'm non-parole I mean I'm still haunted by my past right so yeah that's it I guess it's something that what some guys I know who worked had some self-awareness and weren't total cycle paths would tell me that it's like it's not necessarily that they're haunted by what they did like it's not like that it's plaguing every single waking moment but they never totally forget about it either yeah I mean it is it is it's hard to identify certain feelings or what I think of it I mean we all do the best to move on somehow it's not necessary that if we were able to move on right we all live in the world that we are we all struggle me in different ways I real struggle for more passed and the way I see things now is what what I can do to make a difference is the most important yeah you know what I think that's a good place to stop this okay good yeah thank you very much you're welcome thank you well that's our show folks hopefully you felt something or learned something maybe you're happy maybe you're sad maybe you're angry maybe you're hopeful but hopefully there was an effect and that's ultimately what I want to do with this podcast so don't forget to share with some of your friends either in person or online go to my patreon if you want like the Facebook page do all those things and until next time stay triggered

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